Despite Russia's recent invasion of Ukraine, traditional conflict — fought with guns, bombs, and drones—has become less common around the world. For many nations it's almost too expensive to wage, too unpopular at home, and too difficult to manage. In this conversation, transnational crime and Russia expert Mark Galeotti speaks to Carl Miller about how today’s conflicts are increasingly being fought by every means available, from disinformation and espionage to crime and subversion.

This conversation was recorded on 3 February 2022, as Russian troops massed on the eastern border of Ukraine.